tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168555.post1951358958110111489..comments2024-03-28T03:22:24.202-04:00Comments on The Multiverse According to Ben: Ethics as an AttractorBenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12743597120529571571noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168555.post-23761687330421881052008-11-25T13:08:00.000-05:002008-11-25T13:08:00.000-05:00Mark: But, slavery is not quite a good example of ...Mark: But, slavery is not quite a good example of what I was talking about, because in spite of what racists have thought, the slave class never really did have a drastically lower degree of intrinsic capability....Ben Goertzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01289041122724284772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168555.post-5027091743188391182008-11-25T13:05:00.000-05:002008-11-25T13:05:00.000-05:00I'll come back and address a number of your po...I'll come back and address a number of your points, but one of the most critical ones seems to be<BR/><BR/>>> In fact, it seems it might be easier to frame an alternate argument: that in a society consisting of two groups of radically different degrees of intrinsic capability, the attractor will be <BR/>- ethical behavior within the overclass<BR/>- ethical behavior within the underclass and <BR/>- exploitative behavior from the overclass to the underclass<BR/><BR/>Note that while you say that "Nothing like the above has ever happened in human history, of course, and nor is it likely to", slavery can very much be used as an counter-example. Note that slavery was *not* ended because the "underclass" revolted but because slavery is *economically* less viable than alternative of ethical cooperation (particularly in the long run).<BR/><BR/>Indeed, much of my hope for the future resides in the fact that it is simply not economically wise in the long run to oppress others when more equitable arrangements can be worked out.Mark Waserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04953566143956154534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168555.post-75809413767641659672008-11-16T21:29:00.000-05:002008-11-16T21:29:00.000-05:00First of all, I think 2+2=4 is true in an absolute...First of all, I think 2+2=4 is true in an absolute sense and will be true even if the universe ceases to exist. I'm not sure if ethical absolutes are on the same level, they may be rooted in the structure of the universe in some way, and your ruminations do suggest something about how that might be: if a tendency for patterns to extend themselves is inherent in the universe and ethical absolutes emerge as part of successful patterns. It does seem to be part of human nature (for healthy people who are not psychopaths) to believe in ethical absolutes. And our nature evolved out of the patterns inherent in the universe. I know you well enough (as your father, having known you all your life) to know that you do, in fact, believe in ethical absoutes in your "heart of hearts" (or unconscious mind if you prefer) in the sense that you are genuinely outraged by unethical behavior in a way that a true post-modernist cannot justify.Ted Goertzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705703092357153275noreply@blogger.com